career choices

[martinwhite]

Hi All,

I have reached a career dilemma. I feel that I am currently pulled three ways between the logical, financial and emotional.

I am an engineer by my original qualifications and this is what i do currently. I have had a tremendous interest in training and develepment since 2000 when i had a lightbulb moment on a course I was participating in by Penny Ferguson Ltd in the UK.

My employer has stated that it is creating a position of Training Manager for the first time. The position requires a great deal of specialised technical knowledge of our machines. It's a position that in theory suits me down to the ground and should pay well too. I have had two interviews and I feel that I am well placed.

My long-time friend and mentor (who was delivering the course which led to my epiphany in 2000) has offered me a position within his company too. This really is my ideal job. It involves some sales (which I've never done before) but I feel the same way about this job as I would imagine Tony Robbins did when he was offered a position working for Jim Rohn.

The problem is this...my intuition tells me that my current employer is not taking the appointment of the training manager as seriously as I feel the role deserves. It's nearly two weeks since the last interviews were conducted and there's been no decision as yet. Two dates set by the company for making a decision have come and gone. My inner voice is nagging me "Noooo!" Consciously I feel that if they can't be energised about the role now, when it's new, then what chance do I have of accomplishing anything worthwhile in this role?

So take the job with the friend, right? Well, that job's basic salary is less than I can live on, even if I don't account for putting fuel in my car, shopping for groceries etc. As I said, it's sales based so there is commission but selling training is never an easy sell, I'm told. (Myth of Experts alert!! :-) I can sum up how i feel about this job with this analogy. Ever been travelling on a motorway/freeway looking for a particular place? Searched up and down and round and round for it, then you see it just off the freeway but can't find the exit ramp or work out how to get there?

My third option is to stay in my current position. The pay is adequate, just, although I can prove that I'm underpaid. I greatly dislike the work and don't enjoy my daily experience at all.

I don't like any of the options to be honest and I'm feeling a great deal of stress over it all. Any assistance or help looking at it from another angle would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
M

[Sophie]

Hi Martin

I can relate to this in that I changed my job a few months ago as I was offered a job that I had really wanted to do for a long time. 

I was faced with a dilemna.  I had recently bought a more expensive house so my outgoings had gone up.  The house needs a fair amount of work, which won't be cheap.  The bills went up because the house is bigger. 

I really wanted to do the job (which is a first for me - I've worked just to pay the bills up til now) but the pay would be a drop and as it is in events management, if the events weren't successful the money would either go down, or ultimately the job wouldn't be there any more.

So, after taking it in that I had really been offered the job I had dreamed about for so long, I realised I had to make it happen.  I sat down and went through my finances and worked out all the money I could not spend to make this happen.  I then accepted the job.

For a few months now I have lived without spending any money on anything much else than bills.  It drove me a bit mad at times but I have learned I can live just as happily without alot of the stuff I used to spend money on.

And the best bit is.... I am really enjoying work instead of forcing myself to go to work to pay the bills.  Therefore I am a much happier person in the rest of my life too.  I have more energy and enthusiasm for life and therefore I do the job much better too.

If there is any way you can work it out financially, I say go for it!!  It's much better than wondering 'what if'.

Sophie 

[aniinl]

Hi Martin,

it's nice to read those posts, just to see that there are others out there, who are in the same dilemma as oneself, ha ha! I'm in a similar position right now.

But, I have a few questions for you. What is the difference between

It's a position that in theory suits me down to the ground and should pay well too.

and

This really is my ideal job.

?


I mean, both are theory right now, aren't they, since you're not actually doing any of the two jobs yet? So both are the perfect job for you? So what's the difference between the two?

Ah, this is where the dilemma is, right?  Still, I'm sure if you go to the bottom of it, you will find a difference.

It sounds like job #1 is based on what you're an expert on, plus gives you the chance to train people - which is what you have had "a tremendous interest in" for a long time. What better way is there to start in the training field? And it pays well, too! Plus, it's in your current company, so nothing is new for you except the training part (as far as I understood). Plus, it's a new position, there are no rules yet! You can make them, you can probably influence your own job description big time!

Job #2 - now I don't know how Tony Robbins felt in the same position - good or bad? And is it good or bad that it involves Sales? Are you at all interested in Sales (after all you've never done it before). Will you be training people there or will you just work in a company that does trainings? Is it good to work for a friend, especially when you're a starter in the field?

My opinion - based on the little facts I have from your post - is to go for job #1, do it for a year or two until you are an expert in training, and if your friend is really your friend, he will still have a position for you then   But honestly, once you're an expert, you will be able to land a job which is not only "ideal" for you, but pays well, too.


I am doing the same. My company has also created a position for me because I said a year ago that I want to move out of operations and do more training/coaching. I want to be responsible for people, rather than things. I was now offered the position, starting in October. It's still operations = what I know. But I get to train, coach, recruit and guide people = everything that I want to grow in.
The downside is that I am feeling degraded, due to the hierarchy in the department I will be moving to. People tell me not to feel this way, but I can't help it and I know it will look this way to other people. But, oh well. My salary remains the same, and I can really make a difference in the people's worklife, plus I will gain so much experience and test myself as a coach, so that I'll be ready to move on in a year or two.

Let us know how you'll decide! Job #3 (staying where you are) I have a hunch is no option for you

And, in the spirit of this site - just decide by what you would enjoy most! What would make you happiest? You know, as soon as you decided, the universe will conspire to make everything possible for you
I am personally relying very much on the universe regarding my hierarchy issue of the future job... I made a whole list of things that the universe could come up with - my new boss could get pregnant, she could get transferred to the U.S., she might see how much better than her I am and quit... (I didn't put on the list what my Sicilian friend said in Godfather style.. "People can have accidents..." )

Good luck!
Anja

[martinwhite]

Anja,

The choice of my heart would be the lower paid, less certain job with my friend. The choice of my head would be the training position in my current company for the reasons you have described. My wallet is screaming that I must stay at my current company in either position!

In answer to your question, there is a world of difference between something that should suit me down to the ground and something which is my ideal job.

The Ideal job is ideal because I know I will get to learn lots of new skills, from NLP and MBTI to sales (which will always come in handy in any career!) and all in an environment which is wonderfully positive and supportive. I would be involved in delivery of life-changing training and coaching as well as the sales of those interventions. This is why it's my ideal job. The financial prospects could be huge - commission on large training sales, an important position in a growing company etc. The problem is really the uncertainty of how long it would take to earn enough commission to survive.

The new job in my current company is a good match on paper with some excellent prospects. On paper it will allow me to design and deliver training and also organise the training policies of a company which has none at present. However, the atmosphere here is no comparison to my ideal. Imagine being given the choice of working for X on a beach paradise, or three times that to work in a sewer. It's training, and that's where the similarity ends. Ultimately, this training is highly unlikely to make a difference to the lives of anyone.

However, over the last couple of days I have taken a slightly mroe long term view. I have decided that, as you say, there are prospects in the new job which are potentially excellent. And yes, my friend says the position he's created for me will wait.

Many thanks to all of you who read and those who replied. It might be interesting to hear more views on how to make decsisions like this, there's probably a few people in this position.

I will let you know if I am offered the new position!

M

[aniinl]

Ok, now I can see difference!!! The WOW and the inspiration is definitely in the "ideal" job your friend is offering you.

Looking forward to hearing which job you are going to move to, soon

Regards
Anja

[martinwhite]

Well, I was offered the new position within my current company on Friday, but with a salary level that did not reflect the responsibility, importance, value, potential and seniority involved, and in any case was two thirds of what I am earning currently! I rejected it immediately. I was offered a higher, revised figure today but still way too low, so I have rejected it again. They have said they won't increase the offer again.

I was "sold" a very important and senior position at interview, and yet offered a junior salary. It demonstrates to me that the company doesn't even understand the position it is seeking to fill.

I am now adjusting my language and mind-set. Instead of thinking "what might go wrong if I work for my friend", I am now looking for ways to make it happen...possibly including borrowing in order to tide me over the initial period.

Any ideas on this?

M

[aniinl]

Can your company offer you a position with a lower salary?? That's odd. They should at least keep you on the same level... that's my opinion, anyway...

Martin, you are now between staying where you are or taking on the position with your friend. With staying where you are pretty much being out of the question and going to work for your friend meaning loss of money - at least at first. What about a third option? Aren't there any other possibilities for you out there?
Have you tried linkedin.com? I've got nice job offers from there without even looking for them and without being a coach yet I just filled in the word "coaching" in every gap :-) so people who are really looking for coaching managers find me there. I just got a very nice offer on Friday and I'm so tempted, I think I will at least go to the interview.

If you feel the job with your friend is your calling, then you should probably go for it. But I can imagine it's a very very tough call to make that decision. Will you be able to enjoy it, if you are struggling financially in your private life? Maybe there's a way to renegotiate the salary with your friend?

I hope the super coaches on this site can be of better help for you.
Good luck, and thanks for sharing this with us.

Regards
Anja

[Tim]

Hi Martin,

Something that occurred to me whilst reading your post and the supportive responses that you?ve received.

It sounds like you?re at a crossroads in your career. And as you stand looking at the various roads that lead off into the distance, you?re not really sure where any of them will take you. So a couple of things to consider:

-   The one thing that you can be certain about is that each road will lead you to another crossroads! This means that if you set off down one road and you find that it?s not taking you in the direction that you want to go there will be opportunities to change direction at the next crossroads.
-   Once you?ve taken one road you will never know where the other roads would have lead you. So whatever you decide which option you?re  going to follow there?s not point in beating yourself up with ?might have beens?.

Finally, something you might try is this:
Imagine yourself at a crossroads with roads representing your various options. In your mind, start walking down one of them and notice what you notice. Is the road smooth or rough? Is it uphill or flat? Are you on your own or is it full of other people? What?s the view like? How do you feel about this road?
When you?ve seen enough go back to the crossroads and repeat with the other roads. I find this a great way to link with your ?inner knowing?. Hope this helps.

Take care,

Tim.

[Diva Eve]

Hi Martin,
what a nice problem to have! Opportunities all round!!
There is only 1 that doesn't work: it's the one staying where you are. You express quite clearly that you have changed and are ready to step up.
Now the question is where you can do so most and if the return is what you want. I think money is also a form of appreciation and taking things seriously.
Why not have a constructive chat wiht your employer about the situation? Put yourself in the leadership role now and act like a leader does.
How can you be the best you can be today?
What is there to learn from this situation?
How can you find out about what's really going on- rather than interpreting it.
  All in all I can say congratulations!! you are going places. WOW!!

[marksherwood]

Hi Martin

Interesting post.

I don't want to sound as if i am over simplyfying, but:

If you always do what youve always done.....etc.

Cheers,

Mark

[martinwhite]

Mark, Eve,

I've discussed this with my friend again. It seems as though, the way his business is growing, in a short while (<6months) the opportunities will be even greater with him and the basic package may be able to improve beyond the current offer. I see the interim peroid as preparing myself for that time.

My current job is simply a vehicle for earnings at the moment, and I'm thinking that I need to be more Viktor Frankl than Victor Meldrew!

I have told my department manager that I will not be doing this job in a year's time; I'm looking around now. I have been trying to get a raise out of them all year, it's falling on deaf ears. Yet when I was being offered this job, they were saying I'm too important in my current role, they would only allow me to move depts if I had a 6 month phased changeover!!! And I bet when I resign they'll throw money at me to try to get me to stay! They did that to one of the brightest engineers I've ever met. Ignored his requests for financial parity for years, then virtually begged him not to leave. It was too late.....

Martin

[marksherwood]

Martin,

It will be their loss !!

Cheers,

Mark

[Diva Eve]

Wow....almost sounds like you want to hand in a notice now to make them do that!
employers can be so silly...

again, a great problem to have- let's face it you are going places.

have a great day!!!!

[martinwhite]

Hi,

Yes, it's an interesting problem. My financial associations are admittedly all over the place. I freak out about loss of financial security, yet I don't save, have no investments, and have more debt than I'd like to have. It makes me totally incongurent which drives me mad!

I guess I'm viewing my current job like a plane. It's flying ok at the moment but the seat isnt very comfortable. I don't like the view outside much and the food and movies suck! I don't like being there, but it's a vehicle to get me to one of the places I need to go (financially providing for my family). Since the plane isn't about to crash, i can't justify jumping out of it, parachute or not. It's quite simply reckless and not fair on my family.

If it was about to crash, with all engines on fire, I'd jump the hell out of there and take my chances. I'd take a life jacket, parachute and anything else I could get my hands on to aid my prospects of survival.

My dilemma, I guess, is that this plane simply doesn't go to the place I really want to go; a place where I can make life-changing contributions to others to help them find their best.

I have a wife and five children that need to be supported. It's not that I don't think, in time, I could do that; it's just that there would be a period of at maybe 6 to 18 months of insecurity where I think I would be jeopardising their security because of my choices.

If I was just worrying about me, then i would probably take the plunge.

Martin

[martinwhite]

I should add to this that my wife practically hyperventilates if the money we need to make isn't GUARANTEED.

[marksherwood]

Hey Martin,

Think yourself lucky,

I have a wife and 2 ex ones that do exactly the same 

Cheers,

Mark

[Diva Eve]

You know I like this example. So don't jump the plane. Parachute is not the question.

How about you learn flying?

 
I am sure you're wife appreciates a good pilot.
 

What you said about saving and investment...now THAT stuff is good for stability...like fuel in the engine...something that allows you to use your plane- the vehicle to get you from A to B, but different thing to deal with than the actual vehicle... hmmmm.

[martinwhite]

Hey Martin,

Think yourself lucky,

I have a wife and 2 ex ones that do exactly the same 

Cheers,

Mark

I haven't even mentioned my ex-wife yet; the one who this week was moaning to me about how much school uniform costs, in relation to how much maintenance I pay her, while she's waiting for her NEW car (4th in 4 years) to turn up, sitting in her new house (exactly the same as the old one,  just ?100k more expensive)

[marksherwood]

Ah well,

We loved em once...didnt we ?

 

Cheers,

Mark

[Diva Eve]

Don't jump out of a plane but land it safely, transfer your passengers to the nicer one...Upgrade, baby that's what it's about.
Better movies, better view, better destinations. who's the Daddy?!

You can even change the movies in this plane!! It's not THAT hard.
Trust your heart when it speaks to you. Isn't that what you teach your children?
By the way- opportunities come all the time...it's not a once in a lifetime kind of thing unless you make it that way.

Eve

[Michael Neill]

Two book recommendations, Mark - both 'business parables':

*The Dream Manager by Matthew Kelly (not brilliantly written but a great notion)

*The Three Signs of a Miserable Job by Patrick Lencioni (a bit more complex but well written)

Happy exploring,
michael

[martinwhite]

Thanks for the recommendations, Michael.

In this job I seem to oscillate between two states. Depression about how much I hate this job, the hours, stress and uncertainty (I could potentially be anywhere in the world tomorrow if a machine breakdown occurs) and this leads me to do my thinker/prover thing about how undervalued I am, underpaid for what I do etc. Yet I find myself "stuck" in this position because I can't afford to leave! The other job I DO want pays less than half what I make now.

Then I eventually reach a point where I decide I need to take action, and to do that I need a positive state. Nothing useful is going to be achieved from a state of depression. So I really get stuck into my work, volunteer for more responsibility, more overtime and I'm usually fairly successful. The problem is that I find the hours and the stress of this very physically demanding. I started my latest "up" phase about a year ago, and in around June of this year I was mentally frazzled and physically knackered. Then I realise I'm still in the same crappy job I was in a year ago and I don't seem to be able to escape! It's a bit of a vicious spiral. I feel like i'm in a glass room, so that I can see the outside, but I can't find the door. There have definitely been times where I would have seen my doctor about depression if depression had a place in my belief system. However I choose to believe (without judgement about other people) that it doesn't exist and certainly "better living by chemistry" isn't the way to turn it around.